Bull

khalil66

Hi,
I'm Khalil Khalilian, Character TD, recently I started working with awesome plugin Ziva Dynamic and now I created this discussion for sharing some of my WIP to yours and asking some question .
all modeling credit is to Ghasem Mollahasani and animate to Hamed Behrouzi.
i would greatly appreciate it if you kindly give me some suggestion and feedback on this.
thanks
image 01.jpeg

andy_vs

khalil66

Really impressive results Khalil!!
As I mentioned to you privately, the muscles seem free to move and do their thing. Good sense of weight to the character. Line of action firing is coming and going nicely.

I think you'd benefit from having a volume that represents the abdominals and internal organs.

This muscle doesn't feel quite right to me:

image image.png

There's no muscle that attaches to the TFL (or sartorius) in that way. Instead, those muscles should slide over your obliques volume. Here's an example from our lion:

image image.png

You can see that those objects go up and under, and attach onto the pelvis.

andy_vs

It's less pronounced on an actual bull but here you can still see it

image bull.jpeg

ghasem

Hi Andy,
I am Ghasem mollahasani Model artist of this character

Really thanks for your feedback,

Before I want ask you my question, I want you know about that,,
For this work after I finished modeling of body mesh and skeleton, When I want start to make muscle I really didn't find good source of muscles reference for bull or cow,

As I think cow and horse have similar anatomy, I used from both kind of reference,
One of the best reference for me was horse of weta digital,

So about your first feedback I want say, I made body like a real photo of the bull, And I think I can't move down abdomen more then this! it is right?
image wip-1.jpeg

For second feedback, it is not very clear for me what is you mean, for this part of muscle I use from weta horse muscle as reference as you can see in the picture
image wip-2.jpeg

Please let me know I must add sartorius?
And about abdomen I must separate this to 2 part (Rectus and orcans)?

Thanks,

andy_vs

ghasem

Hi Ghasem, absolutely up to you, and the requirements of the project as to what level of fidelity you're faithful to the anatomy. A bull will have a sartorius, even if it's not as pronounced as in other animals.

As for the tissue that goes between the obliques and the upper leg muscles (on the image you circled); as far as I can tell, there isn't actually a muscle here. I had it in the lion initially because it was convenient but took it out in the end. Instead it was solved as cloth as part of the fascia.

As for the second image, the tissue you've circled should run all all the way back and attach to the pelvis. In your bull it stops at the legs.

image lion-muscles.jpeg

hamedanime

Hi Guys.
I am Hamed Behrouzi,Aniamtor.
This is a walk cycle for Bull.This animate isn't final version,if you have any comments please tell me.
Thanks

password:ziva

organs

Hi Hamed,
This is quite a tough animation, not to be discouraging, but I would honestly start again, and focus on getting the gait right, from there you can then layer in the hips and chest while adjusting the gait and we can really focus on heavy realistic walk.

Find some solid reference of a bull or cow. Here are some variations on youtube.

In your animation there are points where the bull has three legs off the ground, this combined with soft landing of the feet doesn't convey the weight of these majestic creatures.
Once you have legs right the rest will be easier to work with.

Look forward to seeing a new first pass and helping you out with this.

khalil66

finally after some Changes in animate and model and also simulating several time for achieve the best results,
you can see our final muscle pass.
any suggestion and feedback are welcome.
thank you

andy_vs

This is really nice work. Congratulations

I'm looking forward to seeing the next iteration.

diez

really niiice!! Keep up khalil!

khalil66

thank you guys
I have some question about LOA , "acc sensitivity" and "vel sensitivity"
when I must use them and for which muscles?
Andy ,in your lion project did you use of them ?
thank you

andy_vs

khalil66

I didn't use acceleration or velocity for lion of action for the lion.
Use them if you want to fire the muscle based on something other than just the curve length (pos sensitivity)
For example if you were to bend your arm just a little bit, but very quickly, the bicep would contract a lot to do this work. In this case you can try velocity or acceleration sensitivity.

khalil66

andy_vs
Wow...! great options.
Congratulations to Ziva team for their good eye detail.
thank you Andy

andy_vs

khalil66

How's that fascia sim looking! 😃

khalil66

andy_vs I'm working on that and in next week I'm going to make some surprise for you...!
;-)

khalil66

time is Fasciatime...!!!

any suggestion and feedback are welcome.

vpavkov

Looks great Khalil!
Looking forward to see fat and skin pass.
Cheers!

dilan

Looks awesome!!
khalil66 Can you share how you got this awesome wrinkles?
Thank you

khalil66

dilan
Thank you Dilan.
for this wrinkles I used Zcloth ,combining slide and fix attachments like Andy's lion with weaken stiffness around 10⁴ and high poly mesh for fascia .
but I'm waiting for what would Andy say about my fascia,because I think this wrinkles in fascia pass is incorrect and probably there must be in skin pass in last step .
I hope this will be useful for you.

spiraloid

awesome work. something you might want to consider. quadrupeds breathing is part of their locomotion, when when they compress they exhale. right now on your animation, the ribs are static. if you add breathing coinciding with the long stride (inhale, expand ribs) and on the short strides (exhale, compress the ribs.) might help sell it for ya since the ribs are currently holding still and drawing my eye. nice work regardless!

khalil66

spiraloid
Hi spiraloid
Thank you for your comment, honestly my base rig from the beginning had breathing feature and Hamed (my animator) used it in his animate,but when breath and walk movment combined together we don't see breathing clearly and I think it's normal in real world, because breathing movment is very small part of whole the walk movment.